KM: Who are you, and what is your name?
MN: My fellow monks call me Nagasena, but that's just a name, and there isn't really anyone who is Nagasena.
KM: If that's true, who is the one that provides clothes, food, and places to stay to you and your fellow monks? Who are the good people living righteous lives? Who are the bad people that steal, adulterate, lie, drink alcohol, and kill? If your words are correct, there isn't anyone who commits either good or bad deeds, therefore no karma and its consequences. If then someone kills you, there is no murderer. Also, that means there is no leader or teacher in your Buddhist monastery. You said your fellow monks call you Nagasena; then what is Nagasena? Is it a mere object, a mass covered by skin?
MN: No.
KM: Then, is a fingernail, teeth, skin, or any other body part Nagasena?
MN: No.
KM: Then, are your body, your sensory organs, feelings, thinking, or consciousness, Nagasena?
MN: No, anything you said so far is Nagasena.
KM: I have asked you so many questions so far, but I haven't found Nagasena. Then, are your words mere sounds or noises? Who is then in front of me now? I believe now your answers so far are in error.
MN: King Milinda was born royal and brought up in luxury. Did the king come here today walking or on chariots?
KM: I came here on a chariot.
MN: So then please answer my question: what is the chariot? Is the wooden skeleton the chariot? Are the wheels the chariot? Or are all accessories to it is the chariot?
KM: What you have described is not the chariot.
MN: Then the chariot you said of is nothing more than a sound and cacophony. Therefore, the claim that you arrived here in a chariot is untrue. You are a great king. Why don't you tell the truth, then?
KM: Monk Nagasena, I spoke with truth. A chariot is called such and is made up of a wooden skeleton, wheels, and all other necessary accessories.
MN: Yes, you are indeed correct that you command a right understanding of a chariot. Likewise, the name, Nagasena, exists because a body of 32 organs and elements, five skandhas exist. That's what Bikku Vajira sang a poem in front of the Buddha:
As a chariot is called such
because it is made up of many components.
So the name of a person exists
when a body with five Skandhas exists.
KM: Indeed, you are a great teacher. You have answered my question well. If the Buddha were here today, he would be very pleased with your answer.
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KM: Does a knowing self exist?
MN: What is a knowing self?
KM: I am referring to that inner knowing self that sees, hears, tastes, smells, feels, and discriminates. I am talking about the inner self who sees things outside through the window, like right now as we sit in this room.
MN: As you said, if there is the inner self who sees and recognizes things, shouldn't that inner self also see the things through the ears or the other sensories you mentioned?
KM: No, that's not possible.
MN: If you say that's not possible, then it can't be said the inner self is knowingly using these sensory organs. The truth is that eyes and other sensory organs see, feel, smell, hear, taste, think, and discriminate, but those are involuntary reactions and can't be said to be the inner self knowingly controlling such activities. Those only occur as a natural law of cause and effect and have not proven that there is an all-knowing self-entity that exists within the body that holds these organs.
KM: Monk Nagasena, does an all-knowing self-entity (vedagu) exist?
MN: In terms of the most precise accuracy (paramatha), an all-knowing self-entity does not exist.
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KM: Are consciousness (vinnana), insight (Panna), and soul (bhutasmim jiva) fundamentally different, or are they the same but only different in name?
MN: Consciousness has the characteristics of seeing; insight has the characteristic of discriminating, but the soul that you are characterizing does not exist.
KM: If the soul does not exist, who sees things with eyes, hears sounds with ears, smells with a nose, tastes with a tongue, feels with a body, and thinks with a mind?
MN: If the soul can see through the eyes and think with the mind, then the soul inside can come out to the outside and see things well without eyes.
KM: That can't be possible.
MN: You are right. There is no such soul as we understand exists.
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KM: Monk Nagasena, Is the self-entity of the next life the same as the current one?
MN: It's neither the same nor different.
KM: Could you explain it with an example?
NM: Let's say there is a bottle of milk. The milk can change to yogurt, butter, or cheese. You can't say milk, yogurt, butter, and cheese are the same. However, since yogurt, butter, and cheese all originated from milk, you can't say they are completely different from each other. Reincarnations are like that.
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KM: When reincarnated, what is really being rebirthed?
MN: Mind (nama) and body (rupa) are rebirthed.
KM: You mean this very mind and body are rebirthed?
MN: No, that's not so. However, acts (karma) are incurred by that very mind and body, and that very karma dictates another mind and body to be rebirthed. The rebirthed mind and body cannot be freed from the consequences of the previous life's karma.
KM: Could you explain it with an example?
MN: Let's say a man started a fire to warm himself up and left the fire unattended. If that fire spread to another man's forest land, that landowner will sue the man who left the fire unattended. If the man who left the fire attended, he would say that he is not at fault because he never started the fire in another man's land, and that the fire spreading to another man's land is different from his own fire that he started on his land. Should that man not be guilty of the fire damage incurred at another man's forest land?
KM: No. Regardless of however he defends his fault in leaving the fire unattended, the later fire was caused by the very first fire left unattended.
MN: Likewise, this mind and body create acts (karma), and so a different mind and body get rebirthed because of the karma. Therefore, the mind and body cannot be free from previous acts, karma.
KM: So does that mean you, Monk Nagasena, also reincarnate?
MN: Why are you asking that question? As I said earlier, if I die without mind (nama) ever attached to desires/cravings (rupa), and therefore without karma, I wouldn't be born again. Otherwise, I will reincarnate.
KM: You just talked about mind (nama) and body (rupa). Then, what is mind and what is body?
MN: The dull and lumpy physical one is the body, and the subtle and psychological one is the mind.
KM: Why aren't they, mind and body, separately born to each other? Why are they always born together, enjoined?
MN: Mind and body are like yolk and eggshell. They were always born together, dependent on each other. Thus, without the mind, the body can't exist; the mind can't exist without the body. These two have always existed together from an immemorial time.
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KM: You said the immemorial time. What is the time? Is there really the time exist?
MN: Time means the past, the present, and the future. Time may either exist or not exist. For sentient beings, time exists. For an arhat, time does not exist.
KM: For the time being the past, the present, and the future, where exactly the time originated from?
MN: It originated from ignorance.
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